Command Points are a new addition to 40K, and potentially very powerful. This list costs 2, points, and has a healthy 8 Command Points due to the 3 for being battle forged, 3 for a Battalion, 1 for Vanguard and 1 for Spearhead. Now the first thing to look for in a list of this size is whether it is possible to make a Brigade.
The army consists of:. Unfortunately not; most criteria are met but the missing component is that a Brigade requires a minimum of 3 Fast Attack choices. And then distribute the remaining unit choices 5 Elites, 1 Troop, 1 Fast Attack, 6 Heavy Support into the available optional slots that the above force organisation opens up. The result is a list that now has 10 Command Points due to the 3 for being battle forged, 6 for two Battalions and 1 for Vanguard. This is an example of a passive optimisation that required no changes to units or choices at all in order to gain 2 more CP.
Active Optimisation is different. It involves looking at your list, finding changes that could be made that would increase the amount of Command Points earned, and deciding which of those changes are worth making. Here is an example of one I recently made for an upcoming 1, pt tournament. There is a Vanguard blue of 1 HQ, 3 Elites and some optional troops. Actively optimising this list for CP means looking for changes that could be made in order to increase the CP it earns without damaging its performance.
Fortunately there is a good place to do this; promoting a Commissar to a Lord Commissar, at a cost of 20pts. Not all armies have quite so easily swap options, but in most cases boosting the number of HQs is the first area to look, followed by Troops. Not always easy, but the swaps are simple in this list: changing a hyper-optimised Militarum Command Squads for a slightly less optimised but more survivable Militarum Scions squad.
In this case, this is Fast Attack. The Fast Attack has a beefy 10 man Rough Rider squad, which is easily broken into two groups of 5. A few other tweaks and weapon-swaps were required to make the points fit, but nothing so dramatic that the enemy are likely to think the army is going easy on them.
The keen-eyed will note that the change of Commissar to Lord Commissar was not actually required for the final force structure, but I am keeping it anyway since I think it makes a better list. I recommend Active Command Point optimisation any time your list is on the verge of a structure that could earn it more CP.
In some cases, the changes required may be quite small. Passive Command Point optimisation is something everyone should do with every list. Anything else that you have 3 off could be combined with an HQ for another Command Point.
In that case, it will have to be the 3 Brigade army above, with the 2 battalions stripped out and points worth of sensible upgrades added. Sensible Upgrades. Doesn't clash with Creed as warlord; I assume that's where the last two points are coming from. Also, before I remembered that there's no Lord of War slot in a Brigade, I was trying to figure out where to shave points to fit in Guilliman.
I couldn't find anywhere else, though.Having reviewed the preview of the Detachment creation rules, my current guess is that it is likely that when playing common game sizes the majority of armies will have something in the region of 7 to 10 Command Points CP available.
This article will dive into army building using Detachments, and what that means to the quantity of Command Points likely to be available to you and your opponent.
Brief recap: All Battle-forged armies start with 3 Command Points, and then more can be added by adding more detachments, or by including certain units in the army. We know very little about which models or units will give Command Points other than a couple of legendary heroes apparently awarding 1 each.
Assume that all armies discussed in this article are battle-forged 3 CP and can afford one HQ or other unit of high enough calibre that it that grants an additional CP, and work upwards from that baseline of 4. Many armies will be able to add 3 or 4 more command points quite easily through the process of adding Detachments probably making a total of 7 to 9 CP quite common. However, gaining more than 6 Command Points from Detachments built using the initially released organisation charts will probably be rareand require an army that is capable of paying at least one of two taxes: HQ and Troops.
Flyers may now look more tightly restricted maximum 2 but since this has been spun off out of the Fast Attack category now, many armies will benefit from being able to take Flyers and still have their 3 FA slots available. Compared to the other Detachments available, the simplest way to look at it is the bonus CP the Battalion gives is your bonus for bringing proper Troops.
The reason for this is because while each of the basic Detachments place a limit of Flyers, there is an additional Air Wing Detachment available that lets you take and gives you an additional Command Point for doing so.
This comes with no additional tax No HQ or Troop Requirement so is simultaneously a way to avoid the 2 Flyer limit and gain a Command point.
For some armies, a 4th point may be available by spinning off their Flyers into an Air Wing Detachment. Gai ning more means paying an HQ tax in almost all cases in other words, being required to buy another HQ or two. You could go straight up to 6 additional Detachment Command Points by buying another Battalion.
What is likely to prove more achievable for the elite armies like Space Marines is a Battalion based army that then adds on Flyers for a 4th point, or takes Vanguard, Outriders or Spearhead Detachments requiring 3 elites, Fast and 3 Heavy units respectively.
This is going to be tricky for most armies, and is the reason you should probably anticipate most of your opponents having less than 6 CP from their detachments, and thus less than 10 in total. And the way to get to 7 additional CP for many forces may be to ignore the Flyer slot and instead include an Air Wing of Flyers. That avoids the need to take additional HQs and troops, but with the high price tag we anticipate, 3 LoW should be a massive drain on any budget.
This is clearly going to be out of reach for the vast majority of armies, but might be just about achievable with forces like the Imperial Guard at around 2, pts. The second approach that is possible points dependent would be to take the CP efficient Battalion and repeat it three times. The trick in this approach will be being able to afford the amount of HQs required — if there are cheap HQs available to an army and remember there have been HQs like Inquisitors, Company Command Squads and even Ethereals well below pts in the pastit can consider doing this.
An awful list, outdated points, bare-bones weapons, but at least it shows that building Battalions for regular game sizes may not be cloud-cookoo land. For a lot of armies, getting the units they want in the quantity they need is likely to prove more useful than getting access to additional points for CP benefits. This only gives 2 CP from detachments so perhaps 6 totalbut could be a very appealing build for some armies. Command Points are great, but it looks more like they are a tool designed to balance the game and reward people for taking balanced-looking combined arms forces than something that all players should try to maximise at the cost of the rest of their army.
I think this is going to make list building somewhat more interesting, as well as giving players different approaches in how they tackle building a list. Do you aim to maximise CP, and fill out the mandatory minimum requirements for the most efficient detachments before splashing out in other areas, or do you decide on the units you want to take and then massage them into the best arrangement of detachments?
I'm honestly loving these new detachments. The fact that an all Ravenwing or Deathwing army is perfectly okay right out of the gate is brilliant, and the lower command points seems like a great trade off.
There are so many armies that needed a bunch of special rules or special characters before you could field them, and this covers pretty much all of them in the main rulebook. Extra command points for being combined arms might be nice, but there are going to be a lot of players going straight for those other detachments to build the army they've always wanted, command points be damned.
I wonder what poor old Belial is going to do now? If you're happy with only having one command point, 19 Leman Russ tanks is perfectly legal now. Or an Aurora Chapter tank assault. Or a full Death Company army. Or so many other options. I can only see this as a good thing, since it's going to increase the variety of armies we see.This page is meant to index pages for the Warhammer 40, tactics dumps, and also acts as a repository for more general 40k tactics.
Since you need a goddamn flow chart to figure out which books are needed to play the game anymore, here is a basic primer for new players. You are going to need the following in this order:. Start with an HQ and two Troops.
Troops are the backbone of many armies, although you don't technically need any to play a game if you don't want 'em. They tend to have average statlines, but are reliable and good for holding objectives since Battle-forged lists give them a rule that keeps other units from contesting their held objective unless they also have a similar rule.
HQs are almost always characters that either act as tough beatsticks or grant buffs to everyone around them; sometimes they can even do both at once. Next, decide on a play style. Note that it's acceptable to go through these two stages in the opposite order.
Pick a play style and then an army that fits it. If you want to drown your enemy in cheap bodies then you don't want to play Space Marines, but Orks, Nids or Imperial Guard are good for that.
For the people who love fielding teams of advance battlesuits and a more standard sci-fi force we have the T'au, while if you have a penchant for scratchbuilding stuff out of trash you are at home with the space fungus and their ramshackle vehicles and weapons Most armies fall in between these categories, but it's best to keep the extremes in mind when building your army.
It's also a good idea to look over the codex and tactics for armies other than your own, so you know what kind of forces and strategies other players will bring to the table.
Knowing the ruleset being used is also important: Matched Play is assumed to be the default in our articles, but a lot of alternate options open up when using the Power Level system featured in Narrative Play due to the majority of weapon upgrades being free under those rules. And of course, Open Play is even more of a divergence since it completely ignores the Force Organization Chart, keyword limitations, and any equivalent to points costs: instead, it's just about flooding the board with the most overpowered units you can muster, for better or worse.
It's been pointed out by many a player that quite a few characters, including most if not all current Chapter Masters, aren't quite as powerful as they were in 7th Edition. Dante is one example. In 7th Edition he was pretty awesome and had several very useful traits that allowed him to dominate. The same goes for other characters. Those aspects features less in 8th, as it appears GW have geared squads and characters towards a more realistic rule set.
Okay, so Dante is a supremely skilled and capable leader in the fluff, but he's no god. To that end, the big guys, such as Primarchs and Daemons ARE really nasty, but most are over 10 wounds, so you can shoot on sight. In short, 8th Edition is Buff Edition, with only a small handful of exceptions that require specific builds to work properly.
Use characters to get the most out of your other squads and vehicles. Azrael, the Dark Angels Chapter Master, is a great example, and works well with Hellblasters, allowing them to fire supercharged plasma shots with a greater chance of survival.
Bad players build a list hoping their opponent cannot counter it. In theory, two people can attempt to build armies to out-tailor and out-counter each others' hard counters, but in practice, it's easier to attempt to strive for something resembling a "Takes-All Comers" TAC army; if nothing else, sticking with the same army and gradually making adjustments to it as you learn what works and what doesn't work, will improve your skill as a player, compared to going "Fool, you think your Wraithknight can save you next time.
I shall return with 20 lascannons! It will also save you money in the long run, since skewed lists built around Cheese tend to get hit pretty hard by the Nerfbat of the FAQ's and Chapter Approved. So, what makes a TAC list anyway? Although these are not fundamentals, in many cases, the following are safe bets:. Small units or big units : Utilizing multiple small units MSU has both advantages and disadvantages in 8th.
With the new Chapter Approved released, each unit in the 'Troops-Slot' gains an objective secured special rule, allowing to take an objective even if the enemy has more models in range of the objective marker, as long as those models are not Troops themselves. This makes MSU built of Troops even more playable. Stratagems are special abilities triggered by expending Command Points CP. You can use as many Stratagems as you like so long as you have the points to use on them, but you can only use a single Stratagem of a given type in each phase.
Stratagems have a wide variety of effects, from buffing your units to weakening enemies to inflicting mortal wounds. In Matched Play each stratagem of a given type can only be used once per turn, so make them count.
However, the following four Stratagems are available to everyone regardless of the circumstances.One of the most interesting new parts of 8th Edition was the integration of command points into the game. Earned via the detachments you take and spent on various once-per-phase abilities, command points represent an entirely new system of resources for players to play around with during the list-building step and over the course of a game. But how should you be using them, and how many is enough?
As always, check the Tactics Corner for more great articles.
Warhammer 40K, like most types of strategy games, is at its heart a game about resource management. That may not sound particularly exciting when said like that, but most games are based on the idea of giving players a finite set of resources- actions, turns, cards, points, etc- and then presenting them with the different paths towards using those resources in the most efficient way possible.
However, for most players command points are something rather unusual, a pool of points that refresh between games and allow them to enhance the effectiveness of their units.
I will be focusing mainly on their uses for the stratagems of the core rulebook, as most armies do not yet have access to unique stratagems of their own. We will, however, talk about these codex stratagems in brief later. With only one reroll available per phase- and a relatively small pool of points to draw on over the course of a game- how and when we choose to take those rerolls can be critically important.
It can be the difference between a model dying or living to fight another turn, between holding an objective and losing it, or between a psychic power failing and it going off. This one is pretty simple. You can only reroll one die per phase, but not all dice are equal. So where possible, you are going to reroll a die on a something that. The short answer is, you want to reroll when you have the best chance of the reroll succeeding- an answer which should make sense if you think about it for a bit.Spamming Command Points Is The New Meta - Competitive Warhammer 40k Tactics
Rule 3: Rerolling a failed wound is better than rerolling a miss or a damage result. The math on this one is a little bit less intuitive, but the basic point is that you want to get the most bang for your buck when taking a shot with something big like a Lascannon or other d6 damage weapon, especially when firing several of them at a target. Chances are good that you will miss with some, fail to wound with some, and roll low damage on some- so which of those dice should you reroll? For example, if you hit and wound with one gun and you need 3 damage to kill the target, but roll a 1- yeah, you should reroll there.
This one is largely relevant in the defensive sense e. Usually this means vehicles, monsters, and characters, all of whom can have critical effects on a battle no matter how damaged, but sometimes it can apply to that single model carrying a heavy weapon, too. In cases where a single roll affects the whole unit e. It may seem frustrating to miss and fail to wound with five of your six Dark Lances, but if the sixth one kills the target and they had nowhere else to shoot, what does it matter?
The I-go-you-go system of 40K has always heavily favored the early turns of the game; armies that can wipe out their opponent with an alpha or beta strike can essentially just coast through the remainder of the match on the virtue of their successes in that single game turn.
As a result, the best strategy for spending your command points will typically be to bias them towards the early turns of the game, when most of the big punchers are still functioning and the major action is occurring. This is the flip side of the above, in many ways- even when focusing on an early-game strategy, you still need to be considering the long-term implications of things.
Will the damage you take from a failed save be enough to drop you down a tier on your stats, or are other guns going to do the same anyways regardless of the consequences of this roll? Do you have ways to restore wounds to this model, or are losses permanent?
This can be particularly relevant for models that provide important buffs psychic powers, auras that your army relies on as well as giving up the victory point for Slay the Warlord. Not listed here: Rule 0, reroll your attempt to Seize the Initiative if your local tournaments allow that. So now we get to the next stage of things- you know how to spend command points, but how many of them should you have?
At the very roughest level, most lists will be able to spend two command points per battle round one on your own turn, one on the enemy turn - this assumes that your army is focusing mostly on one phase of the game, which is usually true, and that your enemy is likewise doing most of their damage in a single phase and thus only giving you one major opportunity to spend a CP on their turn.
A safe bet for most armies is that they will be able to spend command points on one on the enemy turn without getting to the point of just wasting them; however, in a five-to-seven turn game, this can amount to a veritable mountain of CP spent, so very, very few lists will be able to manage anything like this many- even starting with 12CP from a brigade is on the upper limit of what you are likely to encounter in actual battles.In 8th Edition, the ability of any weapon being able to wound anything, meant that infantry vs vehicles and monsters received a massive buff.
However, there was no balance to this. Vehicles and monsters did not gain additional bonuses v infantry. This tipped the advantage towards infantry. Single wound models benefit from wounds not rolling over. An infantry list takes these principles to the extreme! The targets that multi-wound weapons are good against are protected by the character mechanic, and this is something within your control. The only multi-wound models in an all infantry list are characters.
Your enemy cannot easily bring their Lascannons to bear on your Company Commander for example. A further benefit relates to Alpha Strike. Most anti-infantry weapons are relatively short ranged, or much less effective at longer ranges. The entire Rapid Fire subset of weapons are, by definition, less effective at longer ranges normally turns 1 and 2.
Alpha Strike in 8th Edition is very powerful because the rules relating to terrain have changed. ITC standard now has windows at ground floor level block line of site for example. We therefore now see much more terrain on the table. Infantry is much more flexible at:. The early dominance of fast-moving Flyer units led to one of the first big changes post-release in the sense that infantry gained objective secured whilst almost everything else did not.
This means an all infantry list is at a huge advantage in terms of ob sec during a game. In 8th Edition perhaps the biggest change has been the introduction of Stratagems. Rather than being written into core rules, players are able to deploy special abilities via Stratagems.
This requires battle forged detachments to access additional Stratagems over the baseline 3. The single biggest barrier in terms of building lists that make use of the higher Command Point detachments are the troops.
With an all infantry list it is very easy for you to make use of the bigger detachments as you are by default going to be taking the basic building blocks required. The balance against horde style armies was the new morale mechanics. Armies should melt as casualties become horrific.
The Conscript meta that quickly evolved was based on negating this by removing morale with a buff of some sort Commissars in Astra Militarum armies for example. However, the multiple small unit approaches lots of 10 man squads limits the impact of morale as your losses in a turn.
You cannot lose more than 10 in a 10 man squad, no matter how badly you fail morale. As Guard, we should be able to use Stratagems and psychic powers to save 3 squads a turn auto-pass stratagem, take morale test on D3 Stratagem, auto pass psychic power meaning that severe damage to 4 squads needs to be done before morale becomes a significant problem.
No problem! Get high damage weapons into Veteran Squads. This gives them protection against enemy power weapons. And if you use Take Aim they can re-roll all misses as Cadians! Mortars are the best, I think, in Heavy Weapon Teams in infantry list.
You can afford millions! In addition, indirect fire means they can be spaced out covering the back zone of your deployment area. It also allows you to focus fire with little concern about terrain heavy boards, and they are perfect for hitting the units that are often counter to your infantry enemy infantry.This message was edited 1 time.
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Pieces of 8th: Command Points
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. After finally having the change to play in a large event with the Beta FAQI have realized that the change from 3 to 5 CP for battalions is healthy for the game. I am a Tyranid player. It was my first chance to play since the FAQ dropped.
I'm rather salty about the FAQdue to how it hit 'nids, and went in thinking that the CP change was a mistake. I ran three detachments in order to take advantage of various Hive Fleet shenanigans, and it was easy enough to make them all Battalions. Between conversations with other players and my own experiences, I think the change is actually a stealth nerf to IG. Previously, an IG player who wanted to could ensure that they had all the CP they wanted.
Most IG players I know tended to end games with CP left over, and often ran into the situation where they didn't really have anything good to spend them on. In contrast, other factions tended to have to make hard choices, either burning them early or saving them for a key moment.
Sure, there are various ways to get them back, or get more, but by and large IG had all they needed and everybody else didn't, unless they allied in IG. Armies that don't ally in IG can now get CP with reasonable builds.
End result: an IG advantage was significant reduced by strengthening all other armies. I've enjoyed it quite a bit. It did get a little annoying trying to charge an IG flyer while he popped Vengeance for Cadia and Defensive Gunners every damn time and it still didn't run him out of CP.
Then again he didn't have much else to use it on other than auto-pass morale, damnitso East Bay, Ca, US. The CP change is certainly helpful for a lot of armies that were really struggling. As a fellow Tyranids player I planned on running out by turn 2.
Now, i'll have some for turn 3. You are right that it is so easy for pure Guard to get CP that they don't really need more. But for Imperium that soup in Guard, this is a huge benefit. Essentially paying points for 5 CP and getting screens is something any Imperium army should do. I don't think it's as 1 dimensional as you make it out to be.
If anything this has really encouraged souping, so you have more varied ways to spend your CP. Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy.
How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you. Immortals giving more CP increased their value, which I believe was the first intention of the change, and it also gives me more toys to play with longer, which is fun.
Marmatag wrote: The CP change is certainly helpful for a lot of armies that were really struggling. My major problem is that I thought CP were supposed to be unique abilities you find in video games like a super ability in a Dota game.Do you really love the lore of the Warhammer 40k universe but shy away from the tabletop game because you have no idea whats going on?
Or where to start? Or how to do anything? I know I certainly did. My entry into this hobby came when I was in 7th grade 10 years ago. Flash forward through some terrible paint jobs, and I finally got my army on a table against a real opponent. Needless to say, my Tau were absolutely wrecked. I mean bad. So bad.
I couldn't understand at the time why my army was so terrible insert joke about the Tau here. In retrospect, it is very obvious why it happened. I picked the units that I thought were cool and played them, having no idea how to organize an army or make sure it synergizes. I didn't reenter the tabletop game until, to be quite frank, the 8th edition.
So why even do army lists? Open play allows any player to bring anything that they want and play with it. Which is an awesome feature and a step in the right direction for GW. However, I believe that by understanding an army list, it helps focus your efforts and monetary expenses as you grow your army. While I make no pretensions about my tactical acumen, I do think it would be beneficial to members on this Wiki to lay out basic army building lists for the new Dark Imperium.
This may sound obvious, but it is easy to get lost in this hobby. When I discovered aa-wargames on eBay I went absolutely hog wild.
This is probably a good time to mention that I primarily run a 40k Dark Angels army and a 30k Sons of Horus army, so at least I got the Interregator Chaplains right. Long story short, don't be like me. Decide on your army or armies if you have an idea for combining two factions into one fighting force and stick with it. Or else you'll find yourself with a Jump Pack Chaplain when your actually building a Bad Moons warband.
Once again, this is speaking from experience. It takes a while to figure out your play style. My Sons of Horus are a completely different story for a different blog. Starting small provides multiple advantages such as:. I would recommend that everyone start out with two Troops and one HQ. This meets the minimum requirement for Force Organization charts and gives you a solid base to build on.
It is better to take it slow than to be surrounded by units you don't like and never use. Download the Battlescribe app. This is going to help you conceptualize your army and make the list building process a breeze.
Thank you Bonjonnios for catching this and recommending it! This one is crucial, and probably the one thing you'll have to pay full retail price for.